Sparklers burning underwater?

[shaz likd]

If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
be) sparklers burning underwater:

I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

[Salmon Egg]

On 12/10/07 8:49 PM, in article

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

During WWII I remember being warned not to use a stream of water on
magnesium incendiary bombs or using a shovel to get them into a bucket of
water. Hot magnesium and some other metals react strongly with water to
liberate hydrogen. Formation of the oxide with OH radicals probably also
adds to the chemical energy liberated.

As I was trying to remember my sparkler days, I thought that an oxidizer may
have been added. This drove me to look up sparklers in Wikipedia. This
indicated that potassium nitrate is in the binding mix. It seems likely that
aluminum is used rather than magnesium as the metal.

Also remember that oxy-acetylene torches can be used under water. What I do
not know is if it is possible to cut steel, once started, if the acetylene
is cut off and just oxygen is used.

Bill

[Al Dykes]

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/10/07 8:49 PM, in article

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

During WWII I remember being warned not to use a stream of water on
magnesium incendiary bombs or using a shovel to get them into a bucket of

Firemen apparently have a list of car models that have magnesium
engine blocks and if they come across one on fire, know not to apply
water.

[TONY S]

Post by Al Dykes

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/10/07 8:49 PM, in article

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

During WWII I remember being warned not to use a stream of water on
magnesium incendiary bombs or using a shovel to get them into a bucket of

Firemen apparently have a list of car models that have magnesium
engine blocks and if they come across one on fire, know not to apply
water.

engine blocks are never made of magnesium they are aluminum, but there
are many parts that can be made out of it ,like steering columns and
master cylinders,and many after market,dress-up parts

[Don T]

Post by TONY S

Post by Al Dykes

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/10/07 8:49 PM, in article

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

During WWII I remember being warned not to use a stream of water on
magnesium incendiary bombs or using a shovel to get them into a bucket of

Firemen apparently have a list of car models that have magnesium
engine blocks and if they come across one on fire, know not to apply
water.

engine blocks are never made of magnesium they are aluminum, but there
are many parts that can be made out of it ,like steering columns and
master cylinders,and many after market,dress-up parts

Never say Never. You will be wrong. Porsche, in fact, made Magnesium Engine
blocks for a LOOOOONG time. There are several others but I will let you look
them up for yourself.
--
Don Thompson

Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "

There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe

It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain

[TONY S]

Post by Don T

Post by TONY S

Post by Al Dykes

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/10/07 8:49 PM, in article

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

During WWII I remember being warned not to use a stream of water on
magnesium incendiary bombs or using a shovel to get them into a bucket of

Firemen apparently have a list of car models that have magnesium
engine blocks and if they come across one on fire, know not to apply
water.

engine blocks are never made of magnesium they are aluminum, but there
are many parts that can be made out of it ,like steering columns and
master cylinders,and many after market,dress-up parts

Never say Never. You will be wrong. Porsche, in fact, made Magnesium Engine
blocks for a LOOOOONG time. There are several others but I will let you look
them up for yourself.
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain

My bad,I jumped the gun ,I forgot about the various trial parts that
are no longer being produced,there are a lot of cars still on the road
with Mg parts

[j***@verizon.net]

Post by TONY S
engine blocks are never made of magnesium they are aluminum, but there
are many parts that can be made out of it ,like steering columns and
master cylinders,and many after market,dress-up parts

BMW's new 3 liter and so so many motorcycles engine and gear case.

[Salmon Egg]

Post by Al Dykes
Firemen apparently have a list of car models that have magnesium
engine blocks and if they come across one on fire, know not to apply
water.

I would expect, but do not know, how spectacular that would be if the Mg
block gets set off. Also, how long would it take a gasoline fire to set off
an Mg engine block? What kind of a car has a Mg block? How much weight is
save compared to Al?

Bill

[Al Dykes]

Post by Salmon Egg

Post by Al Dykes
Firemen apparently have a list of car models that have magnesium
engine blocks and if they come across one on fire, know not to apply
water.

I would expect, but do not know, how spectacular that would be if the Mg
block gets set off. Also, how long would it take a gasoline fire to set off
an Mg engine block? What kind of a car has a Mg block? How much weight is
save compared to Al?

I dunno the answers, but a google for "fire "magnesium engine block""
come up with lots of information about firemen and magnesium fires.
There are driveline gearboxes and wheels, too.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8013243437982023826

[Richard Casady]

Post by Salmon Egg
What kind of a car has a Mg block?

VW beetles used to have magnesium transmission cases. The rear axles
of sprint cars have mag cases.

Casady

[j***@bellsouth.net]

Post by Richard Casady

Post by Salmon Egg
What kind of a car has a Mg block?

VW beetles used to have magnesium transmission cases. The rear axles
of sprint cars have mag cases.
Casady

The knob Creek gun range drags old cars out on it's lot and use HE/
incendiary rounds on them.
The VW is their favorite, there's a nice white fire in the lower back
that when hit with 50 cal or 20 mm white s**t flies everywhere.
All the young lovers go there for quality snuggle time.

[Tim Williams]

Post by Salmon Egg
I would expect, but do not know, how spectacular that would be if the Mg
block gets set off. Also, how long would it take a gasoline fire to set off
an Mg engine block?

Pretty long. Cast magnesium doesn't burn very well.

However, once it gets going, the amount pretty well ensures
an...illuminating display for the next hour or so.

Post by Salmon Egg
How much weight is save [sic] compared to Al?

The alloys are about the same strength, so the difference is mainly
density, which is 1.74 / 2.70 = 64% of the weight of an aluminum block /
36% less.

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

[John Reilly]

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.

John

[TONY S]

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

Great!!!! there is a very good reason that sparklers[fireworks] are
banned from public beaches,hot embers /bare feet!!!!! also the fact
that everyone loves to throw sparklers in the air over the water.where
they rust and get very sharp points for people to step on.Now I can
see the whole thing stepped up a notch......

[John Reilly]

Post by TONY S

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

Great!!!! there is a very good reason that sparklers[fireworks] are
banned from public beaches,hot embers /bare feet!!!!! also the fact
that everyone loves to throw sparklers in the air over the water.where
they rust and get very sharp points for people to step on.Now I can
see the whole thing stepped up a notch......- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I think they ought to ban SHARKS from public beaches too!!
Apparantly, they already HAVE banned them at FRESH water beaches...at
least I never see any around THEM. And while they're at it, ban those
#@"/> Portuguese Man O' War's! Ever step on one of those suckers?
For that matter, what's worse than SAND? Might as well ban THAT crap
too!

Neal Obstat

[j***@bellsouth.net]

Post by John Reilly

Post by TONY S

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

Great!!!! there is a very good reason that sparklers[fireworks] are
banned from public beaches,hot embers /bare feet!!!!! also the fact
that everyone loves to throw sparklers in the air over the water.where
they rust and get very sharp points for people to step on.Now I can
see the whole thing stepped up a notch......- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I think they ought to ban SHARKS from public beaches too!!
Apparantly, they already HAVE banned them at FRESH water beaches...at
least I never see any around THEM. And while they're at it, ban those
For that matter, what's worse than SAND? Might as well ban THAT crap
too!
Neal Obstat- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

John,
What we need in our land locked area is those goofy bamboo
horticultural trinkets that have the rare fresh water Box jelly fish.
That love Mississippi mud.
I'm hearin' 2 weeks of mad pain.
Least what I saw on NGC.
They found them someplace where I'll never stick a sparkler, nor a
toe.

[John Reilly]

Post by j***@bellsouth.net

Post by John Reilly

Post by TONY S

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

Great!!!! there is a very good reason that sparklers[fireworks] are
banned from public beaches,hot embers /bare feet!!!!! also the fact
that everyone loves to throw sparklers in the air over the water.where
they rust and get very sharp points for people to step on.Now I can
see the whole thing stepped up a notch......- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I think they ought to ban SHARKS from public beaches too!!
Apparantly, they already HAVE banned them at FRESH water beaches...at
least I never see any around THEM. And while they're at it, ban those
For that matter, what's worse than SAND? Might as well ban THAT crap
too!
Neal Obstat- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

John,
What we need in our land locked area is those goofy bamboo
horticultural trinkets that have the rare fresh water Box jelly fish.
That love Mississippi mud.
I'm hearin' 2 weeks of mad pain.
Least what I saw on NGC.
They found them someplace where I'll never stick a sparkler, nor a
toe.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Yes, I've heard about them......known to inflict a bad case of root-
rot and carry crotch crickets.

[Miker]

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

This is a great explanation. Thanks! I thought that was a really cool
video and a pretty good party trick! haha, gotta love science to wow
the friends.

[shaz likd]

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

Dear John

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.
With regards to my original message, there might be a way to get
sparklers (one or more?) to burn underwater, but I can assure you that
simply wrapping several of them in sticky tape, then lighting them
before submerging them......that just won't do it. They would go out
almost immediately.
If there's any other method/coating/technique.....then I'm definitely
not aware of it.
Any ideas?


Regards

Shazlikd

[John Reilly]

Post by shaz likd

Post by John Reilly

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater. Can anyone comment here?
Also, most people have heard about large numbers of sparklers attached
to aerosol cans. But what would happen underwater?

There's really a simple explanation for why the sparklers wrapped in
plastic will burn under water. The same reason that a bottle rocket
will will continue to burn and travel under water if ignited and fired
parallel to the surface of a pond, or even a piece of lacquered
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water. In the case of a piece
of visco fuse, the thread and lacquer wrapping around the core of slow
burning gunpowder becomes a "tube" when immersed in water. The
cooling and "insulating" effect of the water keeps the outside sleeve
of thread and nitrocellulose lacquer intact, with the gunpowder train
burning inside this sleeve. The gunpowder needs no oxygen from the
ambient air as it has plenty from the potassium nitrate (KNO3) to
reducethe charcoal and sulfur. The large amount of gas (mostly CO2)
evolved from the burning gunpowder seeks tpath of least resistance
(out the front end of the fuse which has become a sleeve or "tube"
from the cooling of the water. This gas keeps the water from entering
the fuse sleeve and the burn continues. Same with a bottle rocket
shot into a pond; the exhaust gasses streaming from the tail of the
rocket keep water from entering to extinguish the fuel, which has it's
own oxygen supply.
In the sparkler demonstration, the many windings of plastic tape form
a tube or sleeve and keeps the water from entering and cooling the
flaming reaction enough to extinguish it. As most folks have seen a
lighted sparkler without this wrapping willbe immediately extinguished
when thrust into water and cooled. Hope this helps.
John

Dear John
Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.
With regards to my original message, there might be a way to get
sparklers (one or more?) to burn underwater, but I can assure you that
simply wrapping several of them in sticky tape, then lighting them
before submerging them......that just won't do it. They would go out
almost immediately.
If there's any other method/coating/technique.....then I'm definitely
not aware of it.
Any ideas?
Regards
Shazlikd- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Well, I haven't tried it myself yet but have no doubt that it would
work just as in the posted video. I don't understand why you find it
so mysterious. Have you ever used an underwater flare? These are
used by SCUBA divers and Navy SEAL demolition units and have used an
aluminum powder/barium sulfate mix. They have the same sort of twist
or tap to fire strike primer that the normal atmospheric military
signals utilize. If you've fired one, you'll remember how quickly
they "fire up" and since they contain a much more energetic metal
fueled composition than a docile railroad fusee, they generate a great
deal of candlepower and gas. This gas keeps the water from entering
the tube, just as in the wrapped sparklers. Dr. Ellern listed a
formula for the underwater flares in his 1950s era book: "Military and
Civilian Pyrotechnics" and is a very high temperature powderered
aluminum fueled mixture not unlike the toy sparkler fireworks.

[Richard Casady]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:05:22 -0800 (PST), shaz likd

Post by John Reilly
(visco) fireworks fuse will burn under water.

Back when you could get M-80's legally, my favorite was the water
shot. Just tape it to a rock, and toss it into a foot of water. I
never even considered flushing one, of course, but they say it often
will break a pipe. Cast iron is brittle.

Casady

[Ernie Sty]

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

[John Reilly]

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium. All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

[Ernie Sty]

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium. All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

Really?? I didn't know that. I thought they contained magnesium, but
apparently I was mistaken. I've been trying to make homemade sparklers with
magnesium shavings and steel wool, but I think I'll just give up. By the
way, what would the steel filings in sparklers be coated with?

[John Reilly]

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium. All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

Really?? I didn't know that. I thought they contained magnesium, but
apparently I was mistaken. I've been trying to make homemade sparklers with
magnesium shavings and steel wool, but I think I'll just give up. By the
way, what would the steel filings in sparklers be coated with?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Iron and steel filings are normally lightly coated with either melted
paraffin wax or linseed oil to protect the steel from rusting from the
oxidizer salts during storage. The old wire dip iron sparklers also
contained powdered aluminum for brilliance and heat and the steel gave
the beautiful branching golden yellow sparks. I doubt that many
sparklers made these days contain much iron and are mostly aluminum
which doesn't match the softer branchin of the older product.
Typical compositions from the 1940s:

A (T. L.
Davis) B (Allen F. Clark) C (unknown, from
T.L. Davis)
Potassium Nitrate -
64 -
Potassium Perchlorate -
- 6
Barium Nitrate 48 pounds
30 -
Finely powdered aluminum 7 "
9 1
Fine iron filings
24
- 12
Sulfur
-
16 -
Charcoal dust -
16 -
Manganese dioxide 2
- -
Antimony Sulfide -
16
-
Dextrine
12
16 2


Add sufficient water to make a thick "paint" and dip the 18 gauge iron
wires several times, drying between dips. Be careful of these as they
are extremely fast burning in powdered form.

John Reilly

[John Reilly]

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium. All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

Really?? I didn't know that. I thought they contained magnesium, but
apparently I was mistaken. I've been trying to make homemade sparklers with
magnesium shavings and steel wool, but I think I'll just give up. By the
way, what would the steel filings in sparklers be coated with?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Iron and steel filings are normally lightly coated with either melted
paraffin wax or linseed oil to protect the steel from rusting from the
oxidizer salts during storage. The old wire dip iron sparklers also
contained powdered aluminum for brilliance and heat and the steel gave
the beautiful branching golden yellow sparks. I doubt that many
sparklers made these days contain much iron and are mostly aluminum
which doesn't match the softer branchin of the older product.
A (T. L.
Davis) B (Allen F. Clark) C (unknown, from
T.L. Davis)
Potassium Nitrate -
64 -
Potassium Perchlorate -
- 6
Barium Nitrate 48 pounds
30 -
Finely powdered aluminum 7 "
9 1
Fine iron filings
24
- 12
Sulfur
-
16 -
Charcoal dust -
16 -
Manganese dioxide 2
- -
Antimony Sulfide -
16
-
Dextrine
12
16 2
Add sufficient water to make a thick "paint" and dip the 18 gauge iron
wires several times, drying between dips. Be careful of these as they
are extremely fast burning in powdered form.
John Reilly- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Well, transporter beam played hell with reassembling my neatly typed
columns of ingredients and parts by weight.....

If you check the archives on this group, I'm sure you'll find formulae
for sparklers.

[Ernie Sty]

Post by John Reilly

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater
than
it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium.
All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

Really?? I didn't know that. I thought they contained magnesium, but
apparently I was mistaken. I've been trying to make homemade sparklers with
magnesium shavings and steel wool, but I think I'll just give up. By the
way, what would the steel filings in sparklers be coated with?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Iron and steel filings are normally lightly coated with either melted
paraffin wax or linseed oil to protect the steel from rusting from the
oxidizer salts during storage. The old wire dip iron sparklers also
contained powdered aluminum for brilliance and heat and the steel gave
the beautiful branching golden yellow sparks. I doubt that many
sparklers made these days contain much iron and are mostly aluminum
which doesn't match the softer branchin of the older product.
A (T. L.
Davis) B (Allen F. Clark) C (unknown, from
T.L. Davis)
Potassium Nitrate -
64 -
Potassium Perchlorate -
- 6
Barium Nitrate 48 pounds
30 -
Finely powdered aluminum 7 "
9 1
Fine iron filings
24
- 12
Sulfur
-
16 -
Charcoal dust -
16 -
Manganese dioxide 2
- -
Antimony Sulfide -
16
-
Dextrine
12
16 2
Add sufficient water to make a thick "paint" and dip the 18 gauge iron
wires several times, drying between dips. Be careful of these as they
are extremely fast burning in powdered form.
John Reilly- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Well, transporter beam played hell with reassembling my neatly typed
columns of ingredients and parts by weight.....
If you check the archives on this group, I'm sure you'll find formulae
for sparklers.

Thank you kindly, John.

[Miker]

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium. All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

Really?? I didn't know that. I thought they contained magnesium, but
apparently I was mistaken. I've been trying to make homemade sparklers with
magnesium shavings and steel wool, but I think I'll just give up. By the
way, what would the steel filings in sparklers be coated with?

I cant wait to try this haha thanks!

[mikes2653]

Commercial sparklers rely on barium nitrate for the oxidizer, a
mixture of aluminum and steel metal for the fuels, and dextrine or
other adhesives for the binder. Smaller amounts of potassium nitrate
or charcoal may be present. The steel is ordinarily protected by a
paraffine wax coating. A small amount of boric acid may be added to
the slurry as a buffer against the alkaline decomposition of the
aluminum. The grade of dextrine used it is usually white, rather than
the more typical yellow employed in star compositions; it makes a more
viscous slurry that holds the ingredients in suspension more easily
than the more soluble but less viscous yellow dextrine.

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by John Reilly

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME
I am extremely skeptical, and think there must be more to it than
simply wrapping two sparklers in ordinary sticky tape, lighting them,
then submerging them underwater.

Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

I'd be interested to see a firework sparkler made with magnesium. All
the wire dip sparklers I've seen in 50 years have been potassium
perchlorate/barium nitrate, charcoal, sulfur and aluminum with or
without coated steel filings, bound with dextrine and water.

Really?? I didn't know that. I thought they contained magnesium, but
apparently I was mistaken. I've been trying to make homemade sparklers with
magnesium shavings and steel wool, but I think I'll just give up. By the
way, what would the steel filings in sparklers be coated with?

[Ernie Sty]

Post by mikes2653
Commercial sparklers rely on barium nitrate for the oxidizer, a
mixture of aluminum and steel metal for the fuels, and dextrine or
other adhesives for the binder. Smaller amounts of potassium nitrate
or charcoal may be present. The steel is ordinarily protected by a
paraffine wax coating. A small amount of boric acid may be added to
the slurry as a buffer against the alkaline decomposition of the
aluminum. The grade of dextrine used it is usually white, rather than
the more typical yellow employed in star compositions; it makes a more
viscous slurry that holds the ingredients in suspension more easily
than the more soluble but less viscous yellow dextrine.

Thank you.

[Salmon Egg]

On 12/11/07 4:28 PM, in article

Post by Ernie Sty
Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

Try it with hydrogen peroxide. The higher concentration the better. What
would it do in nitric acid?

Bill

[Ernie Sty]

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/11/07 4:28 PM, in article

Post by Ernie Sty
Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

Try it with hydrogen peroxide. The higher concentration the better.

I was thinking about that. I'd probably want to use small amounts of each
and drop the burning magnesium into the HO with a long pole. On gravel.
Someone as ignorant as I am shouldn't be messing around with this stuff
anyway, but as long as I am doing so, I'll try to err on the side of caution
with the safety routines.

[j***@bellsouth.net]

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/11/07 4:28 PM, in article

Post by Ernie Sty
Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater than it
does in the air!!

Try it with hydrogen peroxide. The higher concentration the better.

I was thinking about that. I'd probably want to use small amounts of each
and drop the burning magnesium into the HO with a long pole. On gravel.
Someone as ignorant as I am shouldn't be messing around with this stuff
anyway, but as long as I am doing so, I'll try to err on the side of caution
with the safety routines.

If burning something underwater there has to be a way to push the
water away from the flame.
Submerged cutting torches use a air envelope to form a bell to
protect.
In effect a buffer from the water and the flame.
Wrapped sparklers channel the gases out a core shape and push the
water away allowing the flame to burn proper.
It's the same with waterproof fuse.
I don't think a over balance of oxidizer will solve the issue.
The issue is having the room to burn underwater.
I've seen the video of barrels of sodium rolled into a lake and
watched it burn explosively.
Ask a engineer how it can burn, I don't know.
A flame burns hot, if you strip the heat the fire goes out.
I've made portfires and tried to put them out by shoving them in the
dirt.
My son showed me by throwing them and sticking them in the ground
they'd go out.
The picture of a candle burning shows the parts of a flame.
Just like some girls whose legs don't touch at the top, the flame of a
candle doesn't touch the wick.
The term for girls whose legs don't meet at the "junction" is "factory
air" in Indiana.
This post is a punt gun blast 'cause I'm just awake, and chewing 2 day
old coffee.
Let John, Mike S., or Lloyd pick thru and sort.
Maybe a light coating of silicone and then wrapped with aluminum foil
over the sparkler might work?
That's my brainstorm for the day.
Not studying anything but factory air on!
Dan

[Ernie Sty]

Post by j***@bellsouth.net

Post by Ernie Sty

Post by Salmon Egg
On 12/11/07 4:28 PM, in article

Post by Ernie Sty
Actually, there's *less* to it than that. You can do this with one lit
sparkler and no tape. The burning magnesium in the sparkler actually
extracts oxygen from the water. Magnesium burns better underwater
than
it
does in the air!!

Try it with hydrogen peroxide. The higher concentration the better.

I was thinking about that. I'd probably want to use small amounts of each
and drop the burning magnesium into the HO with a long pole. On gravel.
Someone as ignorant as I am shouldn't be messing around with this stuff
anyway, but as long as I am doing so, I'll try to err on the side of caution
with the safety routines.

If burning something underwater there has to be a way to push the
water away from the flame.
Submerged cutting torches use a air envelope to form a bell to
protect.
In effect a buffer from the water and the flame.
Wrapped sparklers channel the gases out a core shape and push the
water away allowing the flame to burn proper.
It's the same with waterproof fuse.
I don't think a over balance of oxidizer will solve the issue.
The issue is having the room to burn underwater.
I've seen the video of barrels of sodium rolled into a lake and
watched it burn explosively.
Ask a engineer how it can burn, I don't know.
A flame burns hot, if you strip the heat the fire goes out.
I've made portfires and tried to put them out by shoving them in the
dirt.
My son showed me by throwing them and sticking them in the ground
they'd go out.
The picture of a candle burning shows the parts of a flame.
Just like some girls whose legs don't touch at the top, the flame of a
candle doesn't touch the wick.
The term for girls whose legs don't meet at the "junction" is "factory
air" in Indiana.
This post is a punt gun blast 'cause I'm just awake, and chewing 2 day
old coffee.
Let John, Mike S., or Lloyd pick thru and sort.
Maybe a light coating of silicone and then wrapped with aluminum foil
over the sparkler might work?
That's my brainstorm for the day.
Not studying anything but factory air on!
Dan

LOL I hope that coffee kicks in soon! But seriously, thanks--some
interesting points there.

[Mr_Emous, Anon]

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to

----------
If you remember the old "Sea Hunt" TV Pgm from the 50's "Mike Nelson"
used
underwater flares. There is a formular for same such in Ellern.

#36

Magnesium 16%
Aluminium 12
Barium sulphate 40
Barium nitrate 32

A binder of 8 parts of linseed oil and 1 part of maganese dioxide were
added. This experimental
formula is give here mainly to demonstrate the capibility of sulphates
to substitute for the
conventional oxidizers.

[See also my article on the use of sulphates as oxidizers in the PGII
Bulletin. Or you can get it out
of rec.pyro archives.]

Me thinks the devil is igniting these suckers underwater!

[Mr_Emous, Anon]

Post by shaz likd
If you have a look at this link below, you will see (what appears to
http://youtu.be/4fOdB1RKlME

---------------
If you run "underwater flares" through Deja.com you will find 48 hits
mostly from
1998.